Simon Stephens from Addictions UK speaks on the subject of addiction and shoplifting, on BBC Three Counties.
Transcript
Presenter
“Three Counties Radio six minutes past five o’clock. The celebrity chef Antony Worrall Thompson has apologised for shoplifting from Tesco. He was cautioned by police after being spotted at least five times taking goods without paying the 60 year old who’s from High Wycombe says he doesn’t know why he did it. Simon Stevens is from AddictionsUK who help people who have a problem with stealing some a very good afternoon to you.”
Simon
“and good afternoon to you.”
Presenter
“Welcome to the program, this is an intriguing case. Um, so is it true that it’s really the people that do not need to steal that actually end up stealing?”
Simon
“It can be true. Um, we talk about an issue called pathological dependency. It’s, uh, perhaps more broadly known as addiction, although addiction can mean different things to different people, but it’s a case that, uh, the actual act of stealing, can produce a stimuli in the brain that rewards, the reward centers in the brain. Um, in particular what it can do is desensitise people, who are genetically very sensitive. Um, it’s very similar to many other process addictions or indeed addictions to drug and alcohol.”
Presenter
“That’s fascinating the way you described it. Cause I, I, I, and I’m clearly non-expert, but I don’t see that. I just, I just cannot get my head around why anybody, no matter whatever frame of mind they’re in, I can understand somebody, for example, who has no job, no money, who is desperate for food. I don’t understand them walking into a shop and stealing a leg of lamb. They’re going to feed their kids. I understand that. Don’t condone it, but understand it, but I don’t understand it from someone who has a lot of money.”
Simon
“Right. Well, first of all, let me say that, um, people with this illness and the general, uh, addictions, illness or pathological dependency, which is a more accurate phrase, but we’re not responsible for our illnesses, but we are accountable for our actions. So I’m not saying that, uh, people, uh, are not accountable for what they do, but what I’m saying is that, um, they are genetically predisposed to being exceptionally sensitive. This particular behaviour is a learned behaviour, that releases chemicals in the brain that desensitises that individual. So at times of extreme stress and things, that individual may may actually seek to shoplift as a away of desensitising.”
Presenter
“I understand that, but it’s one thing walking into a TV studio for example, and filming a series of cookery programs and people are brought in all sorts of stuff and you think when you go home in the night you think, well, I’m taking that case of wine home and I’m taking that a piece of beef home, let’s put it in the freezer. It’s nothing walking to supermarket five times in 16 days and walking out without paying for the goods. Even for the thrill of it.”
Simon
“There is a thrill element but it’s very much to do with the various stimuli that are created within the brain. This, you’ve got to recognise that this is a compulsive illness. Just like an addict who might well know that for example, drugs are exceptionally dangerous for them. They may well have cleaned up their act if you like, but then they return to that behaviour. Pathological dependency is about people who often stop what they’re doing but find that they are powerless about returning to that behaviour. And at the end of the thing, they turn around and say, “I don’t know why I did that! That is just so crazy“.”
Presenter
“You see, I, I, I have, I have worked with Antony Worrall Thompson on a couple of BBC programs before and he’s the nicest bloke you can ever hope to me. That’s why I’m baffled by all this. And I mean, how would you, how, how do you go about treating someone with a shoplifting problem like a [inaudible] problem?”
Simon
“How do you go about treating somebody? You look at, um, mechanisms that allow you to cope with that real sensitivity around emotion, without resorting to that desensitising behaviour in the first place. So it’s actually a, it’s a case of counselling and teaching. It’s the case of, of coaching. Uh, we are very familiar with working with people shoplifting or even shopping addictions here at AddictionsUK.”
Presenter
“Nice talking to you, son, and wish you well. Simon Stevens from AddictionsUK.”
